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Report 1248
Report #1248 Skillset: Astrology Skill: Meteor/Meteorstorm Org: Ebonguard Status: Completed Apr 2017 Furies' Decision: While I personally support Solution 1, the massive uproar in favour of Solution 2 and against 1 is deafening. Solution 2 with the caveat that we may apply Solution 1 at will. Problem: Meteor has a damage formula of 600 + 15% + (spheres*20%), while Meteorstorm has a formula of 600 + 20% + (spheres*15%). This is inconsistent, and the two should use the same formula. 1 R:10 Solution #1: Make both Meteor and Meteorstorm have a damage formula of 600 + 20% + (spheres*15%) (current Meteorstorm formula) R: 0 Solution #2: Make both Meteor and Meteorstorm have a damage formula of 600 + 15% + (spheres*20%) (current Meteor formula) 1 R: 8 Solution #3: Make both Meteor and Meteorstorm have a damage formula of 600 + 15% + (spheres*20%) (current Meteor formula). Make both also be a channeled action to be in line with other timed instakills (performing an action ends the meteor summons). Player Comments: ---on 4/1 @ 19:04 writes: I prefer solution 1 of these. 4 spheres on a target will be 80% damage + 600 (with a relative buff advantage of 0), whereas in solution 2 it would be 95% damage + 600. Given that meteor is one of the very few fire-and-forget abilities (it does not require a channeled action, so you have the choice of hindering, doing extra damage, etc. as it falls), it is very easy to make 95% + 600 basically equivalent to an unchanneled instakill. Solution 1 would end up doing 8600 damage to a 10k health target (86%) with a 0 buff advantage, and with 6 levels of buff over your target's resist it would still actually end up being an instakill (10,148 damage) without being quite as guaranteed as it is under the second formula. ---on 4/1 @ 19:08 writes: For comparison, solution 2's formula to a 10k health target with a 0 buff advantage would do 10,100 damage (instakill). ---on 4/1 @ 19:18 writes: I somewhat understand the desire to make the formulas the same but I'm wary of solution 1 because I think at least in a 1v1 context that meteor would no longer be a viable instakill against many people because as you say it takes 6 buff advantage to make it into an instakill which means that acquiring 8 magic and fire resistance means it can never be an instakill on you. This is already currently the case but for much higher values (13/13 of each to not be guaranteed death to a 13/13 attacker). ---on 4/1 @ 19:49 writes: Would you prefer that Meteor be made a channeled action then, Wobou? I can add that as a solution 3, but as an unchanneled having it instakill -by itself- is a bit much to me (which is why I prefer solution 1). The fact that it is not channeled means that you can add additional pressure-- including the damage needed to make it kill-- while it is going, instead of having to do setup to keep the target from leaving (unlike other timed instas). ---on 4/1 @ 22:35 writes: I do think if you intend to nerf meteor than that should be specifically in the problem statement. Lowering the damage will make the Meteor kill unviable 1v1 as Wobou says, except maybe for Nihilists as Crux adds extra damage while blocking healing. The time must be spent on hindering, usually with very specific combos with some obvious tells. Tangentially, I do think Soulless or other timed instas are even worse, and are generally only achieved when the target makes a mistake. Those skillsets have other strong elements though to make up for that. Obviously my status as one of the few to use Astrology to effect is known, and that biases my thinking here. ---on 4/1 @ 22:51 writes: I'm providing both options to equalize the formulas. My preference is, as my comments have stated, a desire for normal meteor to match the room meteor's formula (which would bring single meteor in line with the room version). You're more than welcome to support solution 2 if you want, as that is the one that does not nerf it. It's just not the one that I personally agree with. If you would like, transitioning this report to a flat-out nerf report and removing sol2 is an option... but not currently where I am directing the report. ---on 4/2 @ 22:14 writes: As things stand I'd prefer solution 2 for the reasons Wobou and Shedrin gave. At times 4 negative spheres can actually be a bit frustrating to stick on people because there is a lot of RNG involved. ---on 4/3 @ 12:56 writes: I agree that meteor is currently stronger than soulless and the like because it's not channeled, however it also has limitations that soulless does not have (outdoors req, the inability to preserve "rubs" from one fight to another, the sphere RNG that Falaeron mentioned). I think on the individual ability level of balancing that it'd be fair to make meteor channeled because it's also 2s quicker. That said, on the overall skill level I think tarot is the most important tert in the current meta for anyone who has access to it due to lust/empress/aeon. Two of those things may possibly be nerfed soon (lust and aeon) which may change the overall balance of things, but I currently suspect that tarot will still reign supreme as long as it has empress which makes up for soulless being comparatiively worse. I think if I was deciding today I'd also choose solution 2 because I don't view meteor's current state as a large imbalance, although this is possibly due to the damage/hinder meta which even meteor is too slow to have a role in most of the time in a group context. ---on 4/13 @ 07:12 writes: Could I check if there is any concern with making meteor storm be on the same formula as meteor? ---on 4/14 @ 01:30 writes: Trying to put a lot of spheres on a lot of different people to attempt a meteorstorm is something that hasn't really happened-- spheres can cost quite a bit of power just to drop on one person, and now that you can sever them between scuffles you can't try to build them up for a burst later. So not really. As I've said I would prefer that both have the (slightly) weaker formula, but the room version has an additional cost of 10p on top of placing the spheres themselves. It's not really going to break it if it -does- get buffed, in my opinion (which is why I have it as an option). ---on 4/15 @ 01:05 writes: Then let's just go with solution 2 and head off all the concerns. I don't think it's a good idea to make meteor a channeled action given its limits and costs with requiring spheres. ---on 4/16 @ 19:12 writes: Solution 2 only. Standardizing both to meteor's formula is fine ---on 4/17 @ 04:13 writes: The second solution makes sense to me. ---on 4/18 @ 03:10 writes: Meteor is SPECIFICALLY intended to not channel, as that was intended design (Sarrasri and I made it)